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Speaker A: Foreign. Hey, I’m Kate Lindsey and you’re listening to icymi or In Case youe Missed It, Slate’s podcast about Internet culture. And today we are joined by writer and producer and co owner of Defector, also host of her own podcast called Try Hard and Alex Sujong Laughlin. Welcome, Alex.

Speaker B: Hello. Thank you for having me.

Speaker A: It’s so great to have you again. I was not here the first time, so it’s all new to me. But I’m very excited that we get to chat now because today’s topic is a very fun one. Her most recent piece is about a phenomenon that she coined called lip filler accent. I won’t say more because we are going to talk all about it shortly. But first, you and I revealed up top when we joined that today we got basically the type of compliments from strangers that you dream of and that make your whole day better. I would love to hear what was yours. Walk me through it because you told me it involves a Gen Z barista.

Speaker B: Huge. Yes.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: I went to breakfast this morning at a little cafe in my neighborhood that I’ve never been to and I go in and there’s this cool looking barista, just like cool outfit. I can’t even tell you what she was wearing, but it was cool. She was cool, you know, in a way that I kind of couldn’t fathom. And she looked at me and she said, I like your haircut. Your bangs are cute. And I was like, oh my God, thank you.

Speaker A: You do have like a kind of Gen Z passing haircut.

Speaker B: Oh my gosh. Wow, that’s huge. As I am 34 years old.

Speaker A: Yeah. So mine was similar. Well, I don’t, I can’t say if this person was Gen Z. I was walking literally from the subway to the office. And I think a key element of just the vibe of today is it’s like a. There’s been a few warm days, but like every time there is one, it’s a little bit out of nowhere and it feels really special. And so today is like in the 70s, first signs of spring. And so I. It’s incredible. I’m like wearing my sandals for the first time, like, and I felt like people were gonna be like, that’s too soon. Why are you wearing sandals? This is just to say I was like, the outfit I put together, I was very proud of. And I was like, this is spring kind of like art teachery vibes. And I curled my hair in a way I don’t normally do it. And I was walking and then This I believe to be very like, gay man. That’s important because if a man turned around and complimented me on the street, usually I would ignore it. But he walked past me, turned around, and then he said, you look cute, girl. And then he did that thing where you’re clapping like your middle finger and thumb together, like you’re doing tiny little golf claps almost. I’m sure there’s a term for it that I don’t know due to being similarly millennial and tragically straight. But it was like, I’m like, that’s exactly who I’m dressing for. Not even that. Like that guy right there. And the fact that he noticed I’m riding that high.

Speaker B: Oh, yeah, put that in your little self esteem box that you need to keep your compliments in for a cloudy day when the vibes are not as good.

Speaker A: Yeah. And I feel like that demographic, it feels like I am starting to feel, even though I host Internet culture podcasts, that I am losing grip on being the first to know what’s cool. Oh, yeah. And so it’s really validating to sort of find out that through my observations, I’ve like nailed it, at least today. And we often talk about on this show the many ways that the Internet changes what it’s like to be a person. Whether it’s like our clothes, but also things like the millennial paws or the Gen Z stare. But it is our voices and our vocabulary that have been undeniably the most affected. When we come back, you may not have lip filler, but do you have the lip filler acc. Right, Exactly. And each time I want to go there, I feel like I talk with a lisp now. Is it the Botox after? Obviously they’re mad swollen and I can’t move because my whole mouth is numb. I just added a lisp, but my lips look so good. And we’re back. And what we all just heard was a selection of voices speaking with what Alex coined in defector lip filler accent. So I mean it in many ways. It’s a bit self explanatory, but I want to hear from you as the founder of this. What is lip filler accent? How did you come up with it?

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, this is something that I’ve been noticing on social media for a couple of years now. And I just started saving videos to a folder. I hesitated to write about it at first because I think the really easy criticism is you don’t have lips. And that’s, that’s just how people with lips talk. And so Like, I was really, really self conscious of and nervous to write about this because, like, I believed I was seeing something happening. And what I believed I was seeing was a way of speaking that specifically on social media, where the lips were kind of pursed and the air and the sound was compressed as it’s coming out of the mouth, either because of the pursed lips or maybe also because, like, there’s Botox around the mouth, keeping the muscles from expressing, and it makes the voice kind of sound like, oh, my gosh. Oh, yeah. And I. I have. This has been a hobby horse of mine for, like, two years, but I didn’t decide to actually write about it until I was in New York a couple weeks ago. And I saw these two teenage girls on the subway, and one of them was doing it in real life, and I, like, hit my husband. And I was like, oh, my God, she’s doing it. She’s doing it. And, yeah, then I decided I needed to talk to somebody.

Speaker A: It makes me feel like, almost like it’s kind of a little bit how, like Jennifer Coolidge talks. Not quite, but I feel like in like, Legally Blonde where it’s like. Yeah, the lips don’t move. I was gonna say, I want you to teach me how to speak with it, if you’re able to. So it’s kind of like keying. That’s. Jack went too hard already.

Speaker B: I can tell. So it’s. It’s pushing the lips out, but it’s also. Yeah, freeze. Try not to express at all any of the muscles around your mouth. So. And I’m not good at it because, again, I don’t have lips, but kind of like this. Oh, my gosh, guys.

Speaker A: Oh, my.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Oh, my gosh.

Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. I love this. Like, that’s kind of what they thought.

Speaker A: Why am I so bad at this? Okay, I’m going way too hard in the other direction. I’m being like, okay, yeah. Oh, my gosh. No, I’m going way too hard. Oh, my God. I mean, it’s hard.

Speaker B: Something that, like, I didn’t include in my article is that I also think that this is very porny. Like, that’s the other place that I hear this is like, it’s like, hello. Oh, my gosh. And like, it’s. It’s a similar thing where it’s a sort of like frozen expression where you’re not emoting, but you’re, like, emphasizing the lips.

Speaker A: Yeah. Why can’t I do. I’m actually just notoriously bad at accents in general, so maybe this is just Part of that where it’s just like, oh, like, I need to, like, spend, like, maybe half an hour alone in a room working on this. Like. But I mean. Yeah, I mean, it’s a. I guess, like, I, you know, for context, do not have lip filler. And so maybe I. I’ve never had anything like that, so I don’t even, like, quite know the sensation of tightness that I imagine it does.

Speaker B: Sorry.

Speaker A: I’m trying to do it now. I, I, Yeah, I’m. I think. Because I think it is quite subtle.

Speaker B: It’s very subtle. And I think that, you know, I think there’s a possibility that somebody could look at the videos that I’ve compiled and say, this is nothing.

Speaker A: I don’t hear what you’re saying, but here’s how I know it is something. Because, granted, I had it in my head when I clicked on it to watch them, but I found myself when I was watching it. And this is actually interesting for the next question I want to ask, but I found myself kind of doing the lip thing because, like, they were. I was like. As I was picking up on what they were saying, you know how sometimes you, like, can’t help but, like, speak along with things? It kind of felt like I was, like, watching it. I could just. I could feel it in my own lips, what they were doing, because I was looking for it the same way. Like, I can never have, like, you know, if you. If I come across, like, someone who has an English accent at the bar, it’s like, oh, God, I’m gonna, like, medically have to mimic your accent back to you, and you’re not gonna like it. And so. But that, that is kind of leads us to your point, which is, obviously, I’m having a difficult time, I think, because I don’t have lip filler and haven’t. So I don’t know the sensation, but it’s not exclusive to people with lip filler. You mentioned seeing this young girl on the subway. How did you become suspicious that the accent was, like, spreading?

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, when I saw her, you know, I don’t know for sure that this girl didn’t have lip filler. It didn’t look like she had filler. She also looked like she was maybe 15. And generally, kids who are under 18 are not allowed to get filler injections like this, although there are tons of parents who will let their kids do that.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker B: So I was just watching her, and she was speaking in this incredibly exaggerated way where her lips were pushed out, and I was like, oh, my gosh, she’s doing the thing.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And it. I think that over the last couple of years, as I’ve been watching this accent just sort of passively spread through Internet culture. It feels like a sort of dialect of lifestyle influencer speak.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. You know what? It also makes me think of, I don’t know if you’ve seen recently, but, like, if a millennial’s had duck lips. Gen Z. It’s something called platypus lips.

Speaker B: Yeah. Or like the pout.

Speaker A: Yeah. Where it’s just. You’re just kind of like. It’s like you push them out and then you let it rest like that a little bit. And I think it’s. I think actually, again, it’s maybe to mimic a little bit the. Maybe not necessarily the voice, but like the presence of lip filler and having really full lips. It’s very lip forward. But it’s interesting that both duck lips and platypus lips are trying to achieve the same thing. But you then brought this to a woman named Annmarie Peratti. She is the associate Director of Clinical Services in Speech Language Pathology at the American Speech Language Hearing Association. She kind of broke down what you noticed a bit more technically, like, what was actually happening, and also maybe spoke a bit to why people without lip filler were picking up on it. Could you walk us through a little bit what she. How she explained this to you?

Speaker B: Yeah, so she heard what I was throwing down. You know, I sent her these videos partially to be like, am I inventing this, or is this a thing?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And she said, I definitely hear what you’re talking about, and I think there can be a whole host of explanations. And it’s probably a combination, which tends to be the case with any generalized accent or, you know, way of speaking or even, like a speech pathology.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So it’s. It’s a combination of something happening in the body and something that might be social. She said that it was likely that the people who actually had filler were maybe being a little more careful with their lips as they were speaking. They might have been tender after injections. They might have been a little more just aware of their lips because of that. And that resulted in a sort of softening of the sounds and a, like, tightening of, like, the literal mouth hole where the air comes out. Where the sound comes out.

Speaker A: Tightening of the mouth hole is the. Out of context.

Speaker B: Love that. Clip it so. Yeah, but like a tightening so that the air and the sound is more compressed as it’s coming out yeah. So there’s less of a range of expression.

Speaker A: Sorry. The more you talk, the more I’m like trying to do it a bit. I still feel like I haven’t quite got it, but it’s like dead lips. I need to get more taut.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: Well, and then you mentioned sort of the social element of this, which is like something I’m always so interested in, especially when, like, the social could just mean being on our phones. What is, as you cite this idea of mimetic, memetic, mimetic transfer. What’s that?

Speaker B: That is what happens when people sort of unconsciously adopt habits or customs or anything from other people. It’s. It also can refer to the, like, the spread of beliefs. So in this case it’s referring to a person who consumes a lot of content that maybe has lip filler accent. Right. And then if they start to make content on their own, unconsciously, maybe, or maybe even consciously, their brain is thinking, this is how people who make this sound. And so it’s a way of reinforcing trends socially.

Speaker A: Yeah. And it’s super interesting that it’s all geared towards, like, content creation, which were going to get into. Because the question is less how we develop lip filler accent and more why would we even want to. When we come back, the many ways the Internet is influencing how we speak and what lip filler accent specifically says about our current moment. Hi there. I just wanted to say something super quick about the Instagram Live that producer Vic Whitley Berry and I did last week about the fallout from our whole Lindy west episode. First off, thank you so much to listeners and followers who sent in their questions. We answered some of those questions, such as what did Roya’s email say? Or has anyone apologized if you missed the live or maybe you only caught part of it. I wanted to let you know that the full recording is now up@slate.com ICymilive and it is exclusively available to Slate plus subscribers. There are many reasons to become a Slate plus subscriber, such as ad free listening and bonus episodes, but also now this. So head on over to slate.com icymilive if you are a Plus subscriber who is interested and if you are not yet a Plus subscriber, then head on over to slate.com icymyplus or hit try free at the top of our show page. And we’re back. And Alex, in your piece, you classify lip filler accent as actually a subcategory of something we’ve talked about on the show before. Which is just the broader umbrella of influencer accent. And so I want to refresh our memories of that. The person who I think is sort of best known for defining influencer accent is this linguist named Adam Aleksic. And he breaks it down into sort of three. There’s so many categories, but he breaks it down into three sort of subgroups of influencer accent. One is educational influencers, which he says sort of speak quickly. They emphasize important words in their sentences. Kind of like a broadcast reporter. I know he uses this technique. I’m thinking someone else like Hank Green.

Speaker C: My son and I read this children’s book series about feral cats. They’re called the warrior cats books, and there’s a billion of them. And he reads them, and sometimes I read them to him. And so I’ve read a bunch of these books now.

Speaker A: And I have a strange claim to make someone who’s trying to get a lot of information to you quickly, but in a way that isn’t, like, overwhelming. The other one is sort of the Mr. Beast style, which is loud and aggressive, like trying to shock you into staying put. I’m imagining that’s like, I’m here with da, da, da, da, and this is gonna be crazy.

Speaker B: We have $3 million here in this bucket.

Speaker A: F*** it. And then they’re putting people in a room. And then there’s this sort of other category that I think I’m more familiar with, which is the lifestyle influencer. It’s slower, but it uses a technique called macroprosody, which is using kind of a lilt to place emphasis on parts of words, with the sole goal of keeping people’s attention.

Speaker D: I was laying in bed, and all I needed was a little snack to get me to sleep. And after a lot of debating, I decided to just get up and make myself a little Thai tea rice pudding.

Speaker A: But lip filler accent is an even more specific sort of microcosm of this. Where would you put it in these categories?

Speaker B: So I would consider lip filler accent to be a subcategory of the lifestyle influencer accent. And I think that they can be, you know, they can be both at once. Somebody can probably speak with both. I think it would be difficult for me to try.

Speaker A: I know I’m already. I can’t even get the lips right. Yeah.

Speaker B: So lifestyle influencer accent is like, hey, guys, welcome back to my channel. Today we’re going to Costco to check out their Korean beauty products.

Speaker A: Yeah. And it’s so people love to sort of make fun of it, but I actually find it super fascinating like what it is we’re adapting to and you know, like the drawing out of those words and like, hey guys, is because they can’t have a pause. If they have a pause, people click away. It feels like dead space. And so they. And without even meaning to their brain is like, okay, then rather than saying a filler word like, or like, they just keep the word going as they gear up for their next sentence. And to me, it’s just so wild that that can happen without anyone planning on it. And just like reminds me that we’re all animals because, you know, then these things are happening outside of our control. But the way that all of these are employ to sort of either feed an algorithm or keep attention is super interesting. But I’m curious, when it comes to, you know, like, we do all these things for a purpose, what would you say lip filler accent is for trying to achieve? Because I would say one of my favorite quotes from your piece is when you write, aside from one having had a stroke or a head injury, there’s no psychological reason to speak that way.

Speaker B: Yeah. I also feel like it’s important for me to qualify that. Annemarie Peratti very clearly told me that she could not officially co sign the idea of a lip filler accent because there isn’t any scholarship on it. So academics, please, until take it. But my hypothesis, and I’m totally open to this being wrong also or for the answer to be this and something else, but my hypothesis is that having lip filler at this point in time is a sort of status symbol of itself. There was a time about a decade ago when to have lip filler was embarrassing. It revealed that you, like me, don’t have lips, and that somehow makes you less feminine, less sexual. Like the whole lip thing, I mean, this is a deeper insecurity that goes back to like my entire childhood, but I think that there’s. There have been a lot of different ways that people have tried to cope with that. That feeling, the feeling of not matching up to a certain beauty standard.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: As lip filler has become more common, more accessible and cheaper, it becomes a symbol itself.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, it becomes less about the act of getting filler and more about what that means. That means you’re the type of person who can get filler, right?

Speaker A: Yeah. No. I even think from when we were speaking earlier about like duck face versus like the platypus sort of pout, duck face was making fun of almost maybe not like consciously, but making fun of someone having huge lips and like being the kind of person who would like, you know, get filler where, like, it was an over exaggerated kind of mockery. It wasn’t supposed to look serious. But then, you know, the sort of pout is really subtle and isn’t, as far as I know, like meant to be a joke. It is literally meant to push your lips out. And so it is. I think it’s so interesting how even that alone shows how our attitude towards plastic surgery has changed. And then something like this with the accent, I think you’re so right about like what it signifies because I think now it’s like sort of more minor plastic surgery like that is considered just sort of elegant upkeep almost.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: It falls under like getting a facial or, you know, keep getting your hair done regularly. It’s like, do you keep yourself at an optimal sort of state of presentable and therefore have the money. Money to do that? And so I totally understand why if you can’t do it, you would either pout or you would literally speak like it. Because it is kind of almost like kind of like a class thing of like you want to fit in with that sort of tier of people.

Speaker B: Yeah. The woman with lip filler accent goes to Pilates five days a week and has a matching set for every class.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I know. She doesn’t show up in like pajamas, which is sometimes what I have to do in order to get there in time.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: I mean, I mentioned this earlier. One of the things I just think is so fascinating about accents, but really the more way we’ve been talking about it with influencer accent is that it comes from being what we’re observing on our phones rather than how accents typically spread, which is just being around each other. And it made me think of something that was observed during pandemic more lockdown period was the way that young children, specifically us children watching Peppa Pig, it had been like noted with parents being like, oh, they’re developing English accents because, like, they’re home, this is the content they’re consuming and they’re mimicking that versus, like, you know, being in a, in a room with other people. And then there was sort of an Ofsted report that followed it that found that in general, children with increased screen time during COVID lockdowns began developing the accents of the material that they were consuming. And so why I find it fascinating is an accent is really like a window into so many other revelations. So, like, it’s our feeling towards plastic surgery, but it’s also like, how are we socializing and, you know, are you socializing with other people, in which case the accent would be a bit more homogenous or are you on your phone more, and therefore your accent is sort of mimicking what that is and what it is you consume, which might be radically different from, like, geographically where you’re located.

Speaker B: Yeah, I wrote about this in the piece. But the way you speak is so intimate and it’s also so political. It says so much about what you value and what your orientation is and all these intersections of privileges and disadvantages and factors. And I think that, like, it really is that deep.

Speaker A: Yeah. And it’s something that up until the Internet happened a lot, so. Because I would say the only other example, which is one you bring up in your piece of like, an accent that faded in America is like the transatlantic accent. Maybe talk a little bit about that.

Speaker B: Yeah, the transatlantic accent was a. You know, it’s the way that old Hollywood speaks. I. Hey, buddy.

Speaker A: I know this is really forcing us to do accent either of us would say is a skill.

Speaker B: Yeah. Hey, everybody. We got the newspaper. That was horrible. But it’s a really affected accent that came out of Northeastern prep schools, out of elocution classes. It was a really developed accent. You know, it wasn’t something that occurred naturally. And so as mass media in the form of radio and film became more ubiquitous, that accent became more popular because it, you know, it was associated with clarity and sophistication, even though it was this weird blend of, you know, Northeastern American and, like, sort of British and, you know, a sort of clipped cadence that nobody really speaks in. And then as time went on, the accent started to take on a new valence and started to be perceived more as, like, you know, phony, cultivated, which it was. And it fell out of favor.

Speaker A: I’m very curious about. And this we’re getting fully into the territory of, like, not a single single linguist has, like, co signed this at all. But, you know, if we’re on our phones, all the time and consuming content from, like, all around the world, what is that, like, more broadly going to do to accents over time? Because there was. There was a conversation on a video that was posted by a creator named Madeleine Argie, or Argie, I’m not quite sure who is from the uk She’s English, but people were noticing that her English accent was just not as strong anymore. And someone was calling it, quote, international school accent, which is like, where your accent is kind of, like, diluted a bit because you’re actually getting influences from, like, everywhere. So it’s almost like a nothing accent. And so I’m. You’re sort of thing you’re championing is lip filler accent. And mine is like, somehow we’re gonna get like an international world accent that’s gonna come from everyone being online. And in 30 years, you and I will circle back when we’ve won our Nobel Peace Prizes and talk about it. Yeah, but I want to talk about one last thing with how language is changing because of the Internet. It’s not quite lip filler, although I’d love to hear these things said with a lip filler accent. But speaking of Adam Alexik, who is this Internet sort of focused linguist, recently was talking about now AI is coming in and changing language. One of the things he cited in a sort of op ed for the Washington Post was LLMs over represent certain words, like the word delve. And now there’s sort of proof that people are saying delve more in spontaneous conversations. And I want to just read part of what he wrote in his substack about this. Which is the reason we’re talking more like Trump and ChatGPT is because our language is being bottlenecked through algorithms and large language models which do not represent words as they naturally appear. They instead give us the flattened simulacra of language. Everything that passes through the algorithm has to generate engagement. So that’s like influencer accent. Everything that passes through LLMs is similarly compressed through bias training data and reinforcement learning. As we interact with these flat versions of language, we circularly begin to incorporate them into our evaluations of how we can speak normally. And so I would like to think I’m really not an AI user. I’d like to think I’m not at anything AI infiltrate how I talk. But I can recognize sort of AI voice written and God, I’m never talking like that. Like someone hit me over the head with a hammer.

Speaker B: Yeah, totally. I wanted to respond in ChatGPT voice, but I just couldn’t conjure it.

Speaker A: It’s like, now do that X. I know I’m putting a lot on you.

Speaker B: Yeah, totally.

Speaker A: And honestly, you’re so right for thinking that. And it’s right you’re concerned. Yeah. Well, I’m wondering, have either of us noticed the Internet lip filler AI, like change, like changing the way we talk and like, how do we feel about that? If so, I’m curious. I can share. I don’t know if I’ve picked up on it changing how I talk other than obviously, like adopting certain phrases or like being medically unable to stop saying, go p***, girl, but. Which I feel great about. But I know for a while after, like, being on Twitter for 10 years, my thought process, everything I was thinking, I was like, basically thinking in mind with, could this be a tweet? Like, sort of thinking in this.

Speaker B: Yeah, those were the dark years.

Speaker A: Yeah. The dark ages of language. It was just, like, clipped little observations. Thinking very, like, almost skeptically. Not just, like, ruminating, but really being like, here’s my takeaway on that. Here’s what I think of that. And I was like, why am I doing a performance in my own brain? But now I deleted Twitter over a year ago, and now I think brilliant thoughts that no one gets to hear except for when I’m rambling on into a microphone. Yeah.

Speaker B: I feel like this actually gets back to what we were talking about at the beginning of the episode with being complimented by cool people and by young people, which is that, you know, I don’t think it’s a bad thing to be connected to other people and to be influenced by other people. And I. I think about this a lot as I’m getting older. I’m in my mid-30s now, and it takes effort to stay connected to, like, what is popular, what is in the zeitgeist. And it feels really important to me to do that, but not in the way that, you know, I’m trying to be young. I’m not. I’m not trying to be Gen Z, but if they happen to approve of me, I don’t mind it. And I think similarly, like, of course, the way we speak and the way we think are going to be affected by the technologies that we’re using. And in some ways, I think that’s good, or maybe. Maybe not good, but inevitable.

Speaker A: Yeah. I think it’s neutral. I’m like. I don’t think it’s bad that we’re. I’m like, I’m always. I’m just very interested because it’s like, this is, like, the one thing we all do together.

Speaker B: Yeah. And, like, we’re social animals, and this is what it means to live in society, is to be affected by each other. And I think the most important thing is that we’re just, you know, having a sense of humor about it and trying to remain as intentional as possible when we’re thinking about what we want to do and what we want to say.

Speaker A: Okay, that’s the show. Thank you so much to Alex for joining us. We’ll be back in your feed on Saturday, so definitely subscribe, because that way you never miss an episode, leave us a rating and a review in Apple or Spotify and tell your friends about us. To see all the visuals referenced in today’s episode, you can follow us on Instagram Cymipod and you can always drop us a note@icymilate.com ICYMI is produced by Vic Whitley, Barry and me, Kate Lindsay, with help today from Kevin Bendis. Day 3 Nancy Rosario is our senior supervising producer, Mia Lobel is Slate’s executive producer of podcasts, and Hilary Fry is Slate’s editor in chief. See you online or getting a head injury and waking up with lip filler accent.